tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33615081.post4594381859104632340..comments2022-12-21T12:03:20.392+00:00Comments on The Wife of a Schizophrenic: Violence and Schizophrenia – Comments from ReadersMr Mans Wifehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02794499533315461733noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33615081.post-45272422468111252302008-06-21T19:32:00.000+00:002008-06-21T19:32:00.000+00:00Thank you Sabina and Mr Ian for your valued commen...Thank you Sabina and Mr Ian for your valued comments.<BR/><BR/>To be honest I was slightly confused by your comment Sabina - I wasn't sure if you were saying that people with Schizophrenia are more likely to be violent due to substance abuse, because you end your comment by saying that others with no mental illness react the same way.<BR/><BR/>I agree with Mr Ian though; substance abuse can trigger violent behaviour in people with or without mental illness. Ask any policeman how many people they arrest for violent behaviour on a Saturday night, and how many turn out to have a mental illness.Mr Mans Wifehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02794499533315461733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33615081.post-26278862889164431252008-06-21T18:01:00.000+00:002008-06-21T18:01:00.000+00:00Sabina,You are wrong to suggest schizophrenia make...Sabina,<BR/>You are wrong to suggest schizophrenia makes people more likely to be violent. <BR/>Substance abuse does - in people with or without schizophrenia.<BR/>As to does psychopathy or a violent upbringing.<BR/>Schizophrenia has very little bearing on when or if a person elects to become violent.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33615081.post-88757145661261910992008-06-21T12:56:00.000+00:002008-06-21T12:56:00.000+00:00Schizophrenia are likely to be violent than other ...Schizophrenia are likely to be violent than other members of the general population.Violence was associated with alcohol and substance abuse. Substance abuse raises the rate of violence in people with schizophrenia. It also occur in people who do not have any mental illness.<BR/>===================<BR/>sabina<BR/><BR/>Dual Diagnosis<BR/><A HREF="http://www.dual-diagnosis.net" REL="nofollow">Dual Diagnosis</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33615081.post-60431072620715107682008-04-14T20:19:00.000+00:002008-04-14T20:19:00.000+00:00Thank you for those links Mr Ian, I shall include ...Thank you for those links Mr Ian, I shall include them in the blog post.Mr Mans Wifehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02794499533315461733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33615081.post-32487695038718972002008-04-14T15:53:00.000+00:002008-04-14T15:53:00.000+00:00Hi MMW and all,I put something together on this to...Hi MMW and all,<BR/><BR/>I put something together on this topic on mentalnurse site that brings some of the theory together as discussed here.<BR/><BR/>http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2008/04/12/the-will-to-do-no-wrong/<BR/><BR/>http://www.mentalnurse.org.uk/2008/04/12/the-will-to-do-no-wrong-part-2/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33615081.post-69197781204960672612008-04-12T07:48:00.000+00:002008-04-12T07:48:00.000+00:00An almost perfect post Cherie. You are exactly rig...An almost perfect post Cherie. <BR/>You are exactly right that the mechanism that prevents violence is not even the slightest bit related to the dysfunction of schizophrenia other than they both sit in the same head. The mechanism is generically termed as the threat-control override but there are many additional facets to it, including moral reasoning and willpower.<BR/><BR/>And I can agree to a point that many people who commit violence who also happen to have schizophrenia, do so due to personality and not illness. However, there are lots of confounders and interplays in this area that make it difficult to isolate one from another.<BR/><BR/>However, there are those with schizophrenia who commit violence acts because they have become overwhelmed by their delusions to such an extent they feel their life threatened. These are the people for who the Mental Health Act truly exists.<BR/>To label those who have this illness and, by virtue of their intense paranoid delusions or command hallucinations respond to perceived threats as in the latter scenario, to cast them into the category of 'subhuman' is unfair.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33615081.post-42852034647565645502008-04-12T02:07:00.000+00:002008-04-12T02:07:00.000+00:00Thank you for your comment Cherie, and welcome to ...Thank you for your comment Cherie, and welcome to my blog.Mr Mans Wifehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02794499533315461733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33615081.post-31463586413521970272008-04-05T11:21:00.000+00:002008-04-05T11:21:00.000+00:00I am schizophrenic. I most definitely would never ...I am schizophrenic. I most definitely would never kill anyone. I am not subhuman. Even in my least lucid, most off-the-deep-end moments, my paranoia never tells me to strike out against others - it only tells me to hide, be afraid, and stay in my room where it might be safe. My illness is absolutely unconnected with whatever mechanism it is that prevents or urges people to kill.<BR/><BR/>I very much appreciate your championing this cause. Most people just have no idea.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33615081.post-22595637700932982372008-01-31T16:59:00.000+00:002008-01-31T16:59:00.000+00:00Joe, I also managed to read the articles (I just c...Joe, I also managed to read the articles (I just copied and pasted the address).<BR/><BR/>I am so sorry that your family has suffered in such a horrific way. I'm presuming that you are the original Anonymous? I obviously misunderstood some of your comments previously – when you said you had been stabbed over a prolonged period I thought you meant on many occasions rather than a prolonged attack.<BR/><BR/>Again, I misunderstood your comment about taking medication. I understand now that Tom’s medication had stopped for a while. Of course, once medication has been resumed it takes a while for it to get into the system again and to have its full effect.<BR/><BR/>Obviously, and understandably, you have been extremely traumatised by this experience, which has no doubt left you feeling a whole range of emotions. I understand that you hate this illness; I hate it too although no doubt for different reasons. Your hate is completely justified, as is mine, I feel. But we have to keep in mind that the illness is not the person. As Mr Ian has stated, Tom was obviously in the grips of very intense delusions at the time of the attack.<BR/><BR/>I’m curious to know who the scapegoats are that you mention. Although I don’t know you or your family I feel angry towards the hospital staff who allowed Tom to go without his medication. (Anti-psychotics can be injected if they cannot be taken orally) That anger is obviously based on my own experiences with Mr Man, as when he was in hospital with a psychical illness I couldn’t get the ward staff to understand the importance of him not missing even one dose. With Mr Man, as with many people with Schizophrenia, once he has missed some medication he loses insight into his illness very quickly and then doesn’t believe he needs the medication as he doesn’t believe he is ill. No doubt this is why Tom continued missing medication after his discharge.<BR/><BR/>Joe, I sincerely hope in time that you can come to terms with what has happened, and even rebuild your relationship with Tom. You are more than welcome to offload here if it helps you to make sense of what has happened.<BR/><BR/>…<BR/><BR/>Mr Ian, thank you for your response.<BR/><BR/>Thank you Anonymous Mom also – sorry, I have been a little “out of the loop” recently.Mr Mans Wifehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02794499533315461733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33615081.post-43000670201615924702008-01-31T13:42:00.000+00:002008-01-31T13:42:00.000+00:00Joe, I managed to link to both articles and I inde...Joe, I managed to link to both articles and I indeed see where your head may be at right now.<BR/>The incident presents one of the extreme ends of the problems with mental health and is one of the reasons we have Mental Health Act's to detain people in treatment rather than in custody. It also allows for up to lifelong monitoring & treatment (the 'without limitation of time' part) which is necessary for people who present such risks.<BR/>The issues your case presents are in a great contrast to those that Mr Man presents; the only similarity is there is a diagnosis of schizophrenia involved which, in MMW's experiences, clearly demonstrates that psychoses in itself is not a guarantee of violence. <BR/>Whatever Tom's additional factors were at the time of his attack were sufficient to over-ride his own moral reasoning and, as I stated before, it would seem the majority of this was based in the intensity of his delusions.<BR/>Unfortunately, this does very little for you as a victim as you appear to already understand that the illness played a very significant part in this assault. I am sure you have many questions that are lacking answers - and possibly those answers are not forthcoming from the people you would expect to be able to deliver them. I will not begin to offer you any 'answers'; things seem far too current and you have every right to feel angry at this time. However, if I can offer any help to you in the future please do not hesitate to seek me out. I am happy for MMW to give you my email if you so request, and if MMW has no objections to doing so.<BR/><BR/>Kind regards<BR/><BR/>IanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33615081.post-75969516405570362262008-01-31T02:21:00.000+00:002008-01-31T02:21:00.000+00:00Oh well none of the above links worked. So goto go...Oh well none of the above links worked. So goto google and try "owen foster stab" which may give you a feeling for where my head is right now.<BR/><BR/>Regards<BR/><BR/>Joe FosterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33615081.post-68050126001923652712008-01-31T02:10:00.000+00:002008-01-31T02:10:00.000+00:00You should try to understand my absolute (and not ...You should try to understand my absolute (and not unrealistic) anger against this illness<BR/>http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article711306.ece<BR/>which is pure sensasionist crap<BR/>and<BR/>http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/2008/01/22/son-detained-over-knife-attack-on-parents-84229-20378744/<BR/>which is much fairer and more considered.<BR/>My my anger is real and not without reason, and perhaps may never leave me. <BR/>Which is why I post here, a kind of attempt to make any sense of it all.<BR/>JoeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33615081.post-87380340137238077472008-01-25T17:58:00.000+00:002008-01-25T17:58:00.000+00:00very interesting post and discussion here - thank ...very interesting post and discussion here - thank you.Nunyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05148975880979984044noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33615081.post-3950368893916843602008-01-21T15:47:00.000+00:002008-01-21T15:47:00.000+00:00Ah I see, it makes much more sense now, thank you ...Ah I see, it makes much more sense now, thank you for clearing that up.<BR/><BR/>Taking this topic over to Mental Nurse is a good idea; there are probably more readers there than here, and they love a discussion there don't they? :o)<BR/><BR/>About time I posted something else... now where did I leave my brain...?Mr Mans Wifehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02794499533315461733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33615081.post-36467543899905121872008-01-21T05:07:00.000+00:002008-01-21T05:07:00.000+00:00Hi MWW,This post could go on a while (meaning, I c...Hi MWW,<BR/>This post could go on a while (meaning, I could go on for a while about the topic of this post), so I'll stop here now and probably put something along these lines out on mental's site to open further discussions; particularly in recognition of your comment: "So really, all we can say is that everyone has the capability of being violent, mentally ill or not". - Absolutely.<BR/><BR/>BTW: I'm the 'tainted' one also - my partner's blog handle, by mistake. Sorry for any misperceptions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33615081.post-17540322971486782382008-01-20T12:29:00.000+00:002008-01-20T12:29:00.000+00:00Firstly, my apologies for not replying to the abov...Firstly, my apologies for not replying to the above comments sooner. Blame Mr Ian for writing such a lengthy comment for me to read!! Blimey, I thought <I>I</I> went all round the houses…<BR/><BR/>Just kidding Mr Ian. Thank you for your comment. I suppose we really don’t know what makes some people violent and others not, do we? As you said, if A + B + C is greater than the persons moral reasoning then that equals violence, but on the other hand you say that most people don’t have A and B, and others have A and B but not C. So really, all we can say is that everyone has the capability of being violent, mentally ill or not.<BR/><BR/>…<BR/><BR/>Anonymous, I am grateful that you took the time to respond to this post. I hope you didn’t mind me replying to your previous comments in a blog post.<BR/><BR/>Unfortunately, as you have learned, regularly taking medication doesn’t necessarily mean that a person with Schizophrenia will stay well as there are many triggers.<BR/><BR/>I think you sum up the situation very well when you say:<BR/>“Perhaps X suffers from more than schizophrenia or maybe has a discreet instinct to kill <I>but I have no way of untangling X's mental turmoil and neatly categorising the various facets</I>”<BR/>Obviously, each of us can only write from our own experiences, and if your only experience of Schizophrenia is with a violent person then you would understandably conclude that this is a part of the persons illness (which it may be) and that all those with the same diagnosis must be the same. I know of another lady whose husband was always nasty to her, and so she concluded that this must have been because of his illness and that all people with Schizophrenia must be nasty, which obviously isn’t true. Some people are just nasty, and they may or may not suffer from mental illness as well.<BR/><BR/>I appreciate your point that you have been left damaged by this experience. (I didn’t want to say “I understand” because I don’t – I can’t imagine how traumatic the situation must have been for you) I hope you don’t feel unwelcome here simply because your experience has been a different one to my own. Your comments are valued as much as anyone else’s, and reading your experiences will give readers a broader view of how Schizophrenia can affect people.<BR/><BR/>Thank you for your response.<BR/><BR/>…<BR/><BR/>Tainted Holo, I have no objection at all to you responding to the previous comment. Thank you for your input.<BR/><BR/>…<BR/><BR/>Hi there Maxima, I’m sorry that you also have been a victim of violence. From what you describe it sounds as if your husbands attack was based on paranoia and delusional beliefs at the time, that you were being unfaithful to him. If he is not usually violent towards you then I would say you have no reason to worry while he is stable, but obviously, now that you know that violence is a possibility you may want to be more vigilant in looking for early signs of relapse.<BR/><BR/>I would also suggest that maybe you could talk to him about this incident and tell him that although he was unwell at the time, this sort of violence towards you is not acceptable. I say this because although his actions were related to his paranoia, they were based on feelings of jealousy, not a need to protect himself. If he was acting out of fear, I would say that is possibly harder to control, but since it was jealously, he had no <I>need</I> to harm you.<BR/><BR/>Although when very unwell a psychotic person may find it difficult to reason over what is right and wrong, it is not impossible. As Mr Ian said previously, many retain their moral reasoning. Mr Man has managed to resist harming himself because he knows it will upset me, so I think your husband could make to effort to restrain from trying to kill you.<BR/><BR/>I hope this helps.<BR/><BR/>Thank you to everyone for your comments.Mr Mans Wifehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02794499533315461733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33615081.post-63298966263287565712008-01-20T07:35:00.000+00:002008-01-20T07:35:00.000+00:00i have this experience....this is happened in 2004...i have this experience....<BR/><BR/>this is happened in 2004, my husband just got back from hospital.... he and i just got a jetski accident, he drive it so fast till we fall. N t turns out he tried to drawn him self but we manage to saved him.<BR/><BR/>He told me to close our bed room window and i forgot. He thought i was waiting for a guy, so he slap me when i was sleeping and grab my neck so tight till i hardly can breath. I was so scare and i thought it was my time, but i try to calm n try to calm him down as well, it work cs luckily ther someone out side our room. when i told this to his brother and he tried to confirm it to him, he denied, he said i was over react.<BR/><BR/>He is oke now, just got out from hospital from relapse again, oktober 2007. But since then i feel insecure, and when i could not bear it i prefer to sleep on the sofa out side our room. <BR/><BR/>Do u think that kind of moment could happend again ? Cause i m not sure will that lucky :(. <BR/><BR/>thx,<BR/>maxima<BR/>maximalexa@yahoo.comAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33615081.post-11035501902794099702008-01-18T07:32:00.000+00:002008-01-18T07:32:00.000+00:00To Anon, and if MWW does not mind my responding to...To Anon, and if MWW does not mind my responding to the comment:<BR/>I regret your experiences and, without detracting from anything I personally have said, believe that your case may warrant concern towards those who are so mentally compromised as to increase their risk beyond acceptable - patently evident by the nature of assaults on yourself.<BR/>Although you sound rightfully bitter and angry, you also seem to carry a sense of rationality in your comments that validates the victim position of those people disaffected by those people who are mentally ill. It is for this exact purpose that the Mental Health Act exists. There is not sufficient details for me to suggest where the system may have failed; except to say, by the outcome alone, it would appear to have failed you and the person who assaulted you.<BR/>As I said before; presence of mental illness by itself does not suggest that violence will occur unless that illness is clearly presenting a (perceived) threat to the individuals safety - it does increase risk, and where other factors are also compromised, risk is there. <BR/><BR/>"The illness manifests itself through delusional thinking especially with respect to family members (and their imaginary counterparts) and an inability to recognise boundaries resulting, at times in innapropriate behaviour"<BR/><BR/>The delusional, and I'm assuming paranoic, thinking that this person demonstrates would constitute a high risk: where specific people are identified; access to those person exists; the nature of the delusions is threatening to the individual - this would raise concerns for me (as a professional) if he began to distrust those around him.<BR/><BR/><BR/>It would appear, in this instance, his mental illness risk was sufficient to warrant concern; along with the risks I have already identified, this is what leads to the individual becoming one of the 1% of those that do.<BR/><BR/>It also has led to you being a victim.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33615081.post-60973311735807795932008-01-17T16:19:00.000+00:002008-01-17T16:19:00.000+00:00Thank you for your considered response to my post ...Thank you for your considered response to my post under Violence and Schizophrenia Part II. I hope you will understand my desire to remain anonymous and therefore not wanting to give too many details about the incident or the family history but I will elaborate a bit further.<BR/><BR/>My attacker (X) is a close member of family who has suffered a serious mental illness for many years. We now know this to be schizophrenia though it took quite some time for a formal diagnosis to be given. The illness manifests itself through delusional thinking especially with respect to family members (and their imaginary counterparts) and an inability to recognise boundaries resulting, at times in innapropriate behaviour. No doubt there are other affects but as X is unwilling to describe their feelings during bad times it is less clear what they are.<BR/><BR/>At the time of the attack X was suffering severe confusion and distress. We had tried to get all the help available and the services were in close contact but I suspect no one really believed that the situation would deteriorate so rapidly and disastrously. I am as guilty as anyone else here and thought that so long as the situation was kept safe and calm and X could be pursuaded to take medication regularly again then everything would be OK. After all thats the way things usually turned out.<BR/>Except we were wrong. <BR/><BR/>Ultimately, my hope and my denial almost killed me.<BR/>Perhaps X suffers from more than schizophrenia or maybe has a discreet instinct to kill but I have no way of untangling X's mental turmoil and neatly catagorising the various facets that comprise the illness. And now I have no desire to do so, I have no wish to have anything to do with X again.<BR/><BR/>It is not my intention to be sensationalist, or to tar anyone with the same brush or to argue that this may be in store for you. This has left me damaged and raw and so I needed to speak out. I have been left trusting no-one and wishing that the only thing I had ever listened to was my instincts.<BR/><BR/>There is to be be a trial, and an inquiry. No worries there, the powers that be very quickly chose their scapegoats.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33615081.post-4881704499502810592008-01-16T17:24:00.000+00:002008-01-16T17:24:00.000+00:00Wow.. long post.. much quoting... me thinking... d...Wow.. long post.. much quoting... me thinking... did I say that? ;o)<BR/><BR/>To add (substantially) to your comments:<BR/>I think the mental illness/violence misrepresented synonymity..hmm... ok.. rephrase...<BR/><BR/>I think the presumptive generalised bollox that people with Mental Illness are violent is akin to how "delusions" are formed - an ember or kindling spark can quickly turn into a raging fire if given the right circumstances - usually glorified media, public/press ignorance and the synergic consequence of public hysteria are to blame.<BR/>However, in cases such as Christopher Clunis/Jonathon Zito, there is a clear recognition that in some instances, the distorted thinking symptomatic of mental illness places a huge weight on the causality behind a person acting out violently. However, this is not a personality aspect that can be singled out as the unique and isolated cause (unless it involves perceived extreme life-threatening fear - such as one might do if a gun were pointed at you - or you believed the person standing next to you was about to inject your brain with HIV); it also needs other pre-disposing factors such as violent experiences (received or given) and poor cognitive ability (for problem-solving, rationalising or reasoning, etc).<BR/>I understand the concerns of Jo Public that arise in regard the sensationalism that media give to such events, but the emphasis is always placed on the 'fact' that the person is mentally ill - not that they may have been beaten soundly as a child, or came from a socially deprived background with poor educational opportunities.<BR/>The opinion makers (mostly media) simply grab onto one "fact" (and lets make it the one least understood so we can keep that mystical yet patroninsing nature about the story going) and emphasise everything we can on that.<BR/>The reality is, if a person with a mental illness diagnosis commits a violent act, the stats will show that to be 'violence by a mentally ill person'; even tho the violence might be nothing to do with the 'illness' directly or even indirectly. I'm not sure how the stats are collated on violence, but I would suggest it's non-mental health workers; eg police officer attending a domestic sees old Fred again just discharged from hospital - ergo, he must be acting mental again, as that is his previous "MO", back in on a s136 or call for an Approved Social Worker to s2 him - who will because the alternative of a night in jail would mess him up. Tick placed in "violence - mental health related" as it's very often a case of finding the right box to tick; not analysing the true situation.<BR/>Having said (or typed) all that; the presence of mental illness can increase the risk of violence - but IF that mental illness causes fear of harm from others - AND the aforementioned predisposing factors are also evident in sufficient weighing to cause the person to believe and to have the ability to carry out any assault.<BR/>Most people don't have the other two predisposing factors, mentally ill or otherwise. Many others have the two factors alone and don't need to add a 'mental illness' to pass the threshold.<BR/>As a rough guide to violent behaviour for ANYONE(and there's probably other factors I'm missing here): <BR/>If a+b+c > moral reasoning = violence - where <BR/>a) is level of previous exposure to violence; <BR/>(b) is level of impairment of cognitive ability to deal with it, and <BR/>(c) is level of any other factor: it could be "mental illness", or no money, or no food, or a bad day, or political beliefs, or religion, or previous bad dealings with that person, or sense of injustice or even just they support the wrong football team, or any combination of those and more.<BR/>Mental illness does not generally exceed moral reasoning in itself; and it certainly is no more likely to lead to violence than any of the others listed at (c) - just depends on how bad (c) is for that person.<BR/><BR/>As for the "intrusive thoughts", hell I sometimes want to smack the crap out of some people - especially when I perceive them to be acting like utter (c)'sAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33615081.post-84420180394558570372008-01-11T02:44:00.000+00:002008-01-11T02:44:00.000+00:00DG, thank you for your comment and welcome to my b...DG, thank you for your comment and welcome to my blog. I'm glad you have found my blog to be informative.<BR/><BR/>No doubt this is a difficult time for you and your family. I hope you can find the information and the support that you need. Please feel free to ask questions or just let off steam here whenever you feel the need.Mr Mans Wifehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02794499533315461733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33615081.post-89664254560222536662008-01-11T00:56:00.000+00:002008-01-11T00:56:00.000+00:00I have a young son who has "symptoms." I find you...I have a young son who has "symptoms." I find your site to be informative. We are in the middle of evaluations. Thank you for your writing and sharing. sincerely, dgAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com